Curse

MirkoTeran · Dec 06, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

Lucifer, you forgot this SS

Where we beat the first quest of the Foundry of the Failed Creation with HEROES

Woot, look at me... Ken, why do I look bald? Fix your graphic card.

Njaiguni Blaze · Dec 06, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bocjo Bassannn

I still think increasing team size there to 10 to 12 people to speed things up and make the difficulty level "chooseable". Is a simple easy fix that will apease to almost everyone.

I forgot to mention in my post, after the monk died for the first time one of the eles was like zomg u guys suck and ragequitted, so we made it through with only 7 ppl. 10 or 12 is not needed, trust me. It'll only spoil the fun and bring up B/P with Orders.

saphir · Dec 06, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

well, finally finished the city quest tonight. it was pretty cool, given how many attempts i had made. which wasn't too many given i only have time each night to try one run if i'm lucky.

the funniest part was that it was just about the worst pug i'd ever had.

my past successful pugs who have performed real well, but still either wiped, couldn't rez a dead member w/o crazy long range aggro, or just too many drops/err 7's have usually consisted of:
1 war tank, 1 paragon support, 3 monks (heal/prot/bond) and 3 meteor shower eles.
sometimes the paragon can be a necro, or dervish (great as emergency tank)

usually these groups would open up the city walls before doing something really dumb - like the tank who argued w/ me that he could hold aggro on the 3 patrols in the city. Kept him alive for a few seconds, but never did manage to rez his dead body.

but someone was talking about the lack of even basic lvl 20 gameplay.. most of this group was completely lacking it. I don't know how we finished in just over 3 hours, but we did, mostly due to one of our members knowing how to finish off the end boss part and what to expect.

Our tank never listened the entire time. he would pull w/ a bow, then run back into our caster aggro, then run forward while the derv mobs rushed our eles and monks, then he'd tank a bit, then run back into the monks for something, then rush back out. Other times he'd charge straight for the enemy backline monks putting us monks completely within ranger/ele spike range if we wanted to keep his ass alive. All the while we'd be trying to save the eles as they had run up to cast on the enemy monks.

Our bip was good though, constantly energizing everyone and staying completely out of trouble. The eles were mostly clueless, often rushing w/o any prot, chasing after running mobs when 3 party members were down.

We had no bond monk, and I was told in town by one of the other monks that my build sucked and wasn't going to work. Fortunately they didn't bother telling me to change my skills. Later turns out I was the only monk w/ any prot skills one me, prot spirit/rof. And then the other monk ended up w/ severe lag issues in the latter half of the quest.

It was fun, it was hectic, and half the time I wanted to scream and throttle our tank. The rest of the party didn't seem to have the basics down, the necro and I tried to educate our tank. But he often refused to listen, and you had to repeat things over and over and over and not know if he'd bother doing them. He didn't take damage too well, and had no basic knowledge of aggro management.

I guess the only thing that saved us most of the time was that the softies had the presence of mind to run. It's still remarkable that we finished in such a short time.

Even more remarkable that I still love pugs, although that one certainly tried my patience. I probably came off as the crazy bossy, controlling monk.. but when your tank doesn't even know the basics of how best to manage the well being of the rest of the party - healer/nukers.. you gotta say something if you don't want to all end up back in town.

Two gems and a completed subquest.
I still think a group w/ at least 3 monks, 3 eles and a tank give you the best shot. And I run as a primary spike healer/prot

It's sad that the area sometimes does have become so elitist already.. rather like the old days of uw/fow. Where many groups want vent/ts, certain skill builds, and very much like to dictate what's in your skill bar.
I've joined many of those groups before and often I find they fail just as easily as your random pugs. Only, pugs require much less set up time to get up and go.

Maria The Princess · Dec 06, 2006, 11:59 AM // 11:59

i wounder how many wounders a rit could do in there....

a spirit spammer/restauration rit might be more usefull then a bonder imo

what do u guys think?

Cebe · Dec 06, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

i wounder how many wounders a rit could do in there....

a spirit spammer/restauration rit might be more usefull then a bonder imo

what do u guys think?

I think it's not a coincidence that Razah is a Ritualist and a large proportion of skills people are considering using here are....Ritualist skills. Odd that. I was considering Earthbind and Binding Chains, someone else suggested Defiant was Xinrae and it seems a lot of people have thought of using Union and Shelter, to mention but a few.

Although I am a fan of Restoration I'm not convinced it could outheal the damage from Uber-Margonites. Spirit Spammer, maybe. Shelter always seems to die too fast but I was considering Earthbind with an ele using Thunderclap/Dragon's Stomp/*sigh*Meteor Shower (Man, am I getting bored of MS), or a necro using Soul Bind.

lyra_song · Dec 06, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

We shall see, in a month or so if we get topics like . "I can't find anyone to play with there is like 3 people in the only district", then ArenaNet will have a problem.

When those armbands sell for a couple million each, i dont think there'll be a shortage of people.

Greed is a good motivator.

Maria The Princess · Dec 06, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

^^ even tho my Rit is only lvl 15 you'll see her there VERY soon

With rit lord Shelter and Union might be more effective (more spamable)

So far playing I found that having both up is not as effective as chaining them one after the other dies, so it would provide constant protection and not protection for a short period of time. I also see how Misplacement could work in there (ZOMFG the tank died and theres 5 margonite dervishes runing around!!!)

Anouther thing that im SURE of is that people underestimate water magic. A dervish who cant run faster then a siege turtle is not very dangerous imo, and Maelstorms + Mind freese could take care of those spikers. By the time they will get out of the AOE they will be dead.

I'm planing to try a new build in there which would work imo. Too bad pugs won't admit eles have more then 3 skills.

obsidian flesh tank
MS ele
MS ele
water ele
BiP necro or MM
Healer
Prot monk
Spirit spamer rit

as soon as my ele and rit beats the game ....

Cebe · Dec 06, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

Anouther thing that im SURE of is that people underestimate water magic. A dervish who cant run faster then a siege turtle is not very dangerous imo, and Maelstorms + Mind freese could take care of those spikers. By the time they will get out of the AOE they will be dead.

I don't

I've been wanting to try water magic in there for a while but it seems Meteor Shower is everyone's comfort blanket. Perhaps If I beat the game with my rit tonight I'll take my ele back in there and see if I can get into a group as water. I like to use Deep Freeze and Feast of Corruption...but Maelstrom should help sort out some of the spellcasters. We will have to see.

Maria The Princess · Dec 06, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

so far my monk is the only toon there (but we are desperatly needed

)

pm me in game if you wanna try water ill tag along (never had a problem finding a group as monk lol)

my monk is Cutie Monk, or you can ad me as Maria the Princess

Cebe · Dec 06, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

so far my monk is the only toon there (but we are desperatly needed

)

pm me in game if you wanna try water ill tag along (never had a problem finding a group as monk lol)

my monk is Cutie Monk, or you can ad me as Maria the Princess

Sounds like a plan. My IGN is, well....any of those under my avatar and then some. I have a friend who plays Rit and Necro who is also endgame - I may be able to persuade him to join if we do give it a try.

Lucifer PVP · Dec 06, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bocjo Bassannn

FINALY made it through city..... got a primeval armor and of course the 1 gem at the end.

Have to say that my feelings about the place havn't changed.

It took our group about 4 hrs to compleat it. I still feel that the rit hero should be moved and made more achievable for a larger part of players. I still think 4 hrs is too long for most people for just one part of a quest.

I still think increasing team size there to 10 to 12 people to speed things up and make the difficulty level "chooseable". Is a simple easy fix that will apease to almost everyone. Want it harder take less people, easier and faster more. But the main reason I would like to see a team size increase is error 7s.... We made it and the amazing mesmer on our team error 7's not 15 mins before Lord Jardoth is on his face at our feet. Now I feel sad and almost even guilty rather than a sense of achievement. Why, because someone in our party missed out due most likely how long the dang mission took and there connection droped or hiccuped or whatever.

I have to say that overall at least my experience in the city wasnt at all fun. Not due to the difficulty level so much as the error 7's and the grueling almost "marathonish" feel to the gameplay there. Will I still play there? Only to aquire the rit hero that I want for the characters that I wish to use a rit with. Will I do it for all of my 10 characters....... probably not.

Wait til stygian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neven15

Do you only need one person with the gems or each party member to get into the area

Zyndaar · Dec 06, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Finally! Someone else wanting to try a Water Ele in there and not just one but 2!
I tried for days to get in a party to try it but my god you'd think the world ended the way people act about it.
OMG!! SF and MS make the world go round ya know.
BAH!
**click leave**
Which of course is followed by a rousing chorus of "YOU SUCK", "YOU NOOB!" and other lovely sentiments.
I don't claim to be all knowing by any means but dang at least TRY something before you declare it stupid.

I have wanted to try 2 Fire Ele with 1 water Ele....

Water atribute 16

Water Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Deep Freeze
Maelstrom
Blurred Vision
LB Gaze (or whatever)
Rez
Icy Shackles ?? not sure what elite to take, if there’s a ranger along with Conflagration then Ward Against Harm would probably be a better choice.

Deep Freeze + Maelstrom + Savannah Heat + MS + whatever the hell else ya want to toss at em.
Savannah Heat at 16 Fire Atr = 21 + 42 + 63 + 84 + 105 = 315 * 2 = 630

5 seconds...
2 SH 630 damage 30 energy
2 SF 546 damage 75 energy (includes the 70 damage from 5 seconds of burning)
(Yes I realize it wouldn't be this full damage to them due to armor)

If you slow them down enough and with the proper timing they will eat the entire 5 seconds of Savannah Heat and double
of that from the 2 fire eles with MS plus whatever else should drop the whole group. All thats needed then is a tank who
knows how to get and hold aggro which requires the healers to keep the tank standing.

The idea obviously needs tweaking and finalizing to round out the entire party but I can't even get a start at it.

But yeah I'm just a babbling idiot who doesn't know that I should be eating, drinking and sleeping with my Searing Flames.

Hell it might not work, OH NO! the horror! but it would be fun to try.

As for the so called "Elite" people that decide anyone else's idea is stupid before they try it... Go blow cheese whiz out your nose!

Neven15 · Dec 06, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

Do you only need one person with the gems or each party member to get into the area

just 1 but only the person that has give 4 gems can take razah

Anarkii · Dec 06, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

Do you only need one person with the gems or each party member to get into the area

One person with the gems is sufficient for the whole party to enter the area - though (obviously) only that person will be able to complete the quest.

Cebe · Dec 06, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyndaar

Finally! Someone else wanting to try a Water Ele in there and not just one but 2!
I tried for days to get in a party to try it but my god you'd think the world ended the way people act about it.
OMG!! SF and MS make the world go round ya know.
BAH!
**click leave**
Which of course is followed by a rousing chorus of "YOU SUCK", "YOU NOOB!" and other lovely sentiments.
I don't claim to be all knowing by any means but dang at least TRY something before you declare it stupid.

I have wanted to try 2 Fire Ele with 1 water Ele....

Water atribute 16

Water Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Deep Freeze
Maelstrom
Blurred Vision
LB Gaze (or whatever)
Rez
Icy Shackles ?? not sure what elite to take, if there’s a ranger along with Conflagration then Ward Against Harm would probably be a better choice.

Icy Shackles might be good vs the dervishes since they use a fair few enchantments? I went out and tried hitting a few torment creatures with water and it hits for about half the damage stated on the skill description - which is about the same as Fire when I tried it. If you take Ward against Harm there is no guarantee people will stand in it.

I plan to try out running with a build like this:

Water Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Freezing Gust (or maybe Steam if there is a Fire ele about)
Vapor Blade
Ice Spikes
Deep Freeze
Maelstrom
Feast of Corruption

Antheus · Dec 06, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyndaar

Finally! Someone else wanting to try a Water Ele in there and not just one but 2!
I tried for days to get in a party to try it but my god you'd think the world ended the way people act about it.
OMG!! SF and MS make the world go round ya know.
BAH!
**click leave**
Which of course is followed by a rousing chorus of "YOU SUCK", "YOU NOOB!" and other lovely sentiments.
I don't claim to be all knowing by any means but dang at least TRY something before you declare it stupid.

Maelstrom works, just not with the usual "1 tank holds agro" group, or at least it's much harder.

Glyph maelstrom is great, but requires different group dynamics. In typical single tank group, the casters will linger behind just enough, that attempting to attack them directly exposes you to their attacks, and will likely break agro off the tank.

I was experimenting with Chilling Winds, Glyph of Sacrifice, Deep Freeze, Glyph of renewal, Maelstrom, while using armor of mist and water attunement.

This allows you to put in Chilling Winds on a caster, fall back, use GoS, insta cast Deep Freeze, fall back again, then keep using GoR and maelstrom.

But as said, if your group is all about tank holding agro, this most likely won't work or be just as effective, although even a single maelstrom will severly disrupt their casting.

XvArchonvX · Dec 06, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

i wounder how many wounders a rit could do in there....

a spirit spammer/restauration rit might be more usefull then a bonder imo

what do u guys think?

Personally, I think rits are extremely well suited for the area. I ran some quests in the Stygian area with a group that consisted of an obsid flesh tank (E/Me), 2 Healer's Boon monks (HB to heal the tank's huge amount of health), 3 nukers, 1 bonder and a Rt/R spirit spammer.

Basically the rit used shelter, union, EoE, Symbiosis, Shadowsong, Earthbind, and Weapon of Quickening. Symbiosis gave the tank and other enchanted allies huge amounts of health. Shadowsong protected the group from stray enemies that lost aggro. Earthbind made MS from the eles a lot more effective. Weapon of Quickening was used on the Obsid Flesh tank before he used Obsid Flesh in order to allow him to keep it up constantly.

The Obsid Tank's huge health allowed him to withstand the vamp touch skills from enemies which stole about 89 health each time. A dwayna's Kiss from a HB monk would heal about 800-1000 health each time.

It was one of the most solid groups I had ever been in. Unfortunately, I got disconnected after being in for about an hout.

Zexion · Dec 06, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

MAJOR Kudos to whoever manages to beat all the 4 areas using only GWN and Core skills.

_Zexion

sindex · Dec 06, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

You know what would make some peoples day, have Razah be able to unlock all the Nightfall Ritualist skills after getting him as an added plus. So getting him would seem more balanced in some ways.

MelechRic · Dec 06, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

You know what would make some peoples day, have Razah be able to unlock all the Nightfall Ritualist skills after getting him as an added plus. So getting him would seem more balanced in some ways.

Except for people who've played through NF with a Ritualist (like me). I already have all the Rit skills unlocked so why does my reward have to be half of what yours is?